First Plumbline Apologetics ~ Hope 2008 Prince Charles

The Prince of Wales An Unholy Alliance ?

A Royal Reception

[1] During 2007, the Hope 2008 leadership team have been in conversation with The Prince of Wales’s office to arrange for him to meet a small group of people in the summer of 2008 who have been involved in the acts of kindness carried out by churches during May. Plans for a reception at Clarence House are still at an early stage but we expect to provide more information early in 2008.

Clearly the Hope 2008 organisers have arranged to go in with the world in Christ's name. This clearly undermines the message of the gospel itself and the work of the Holy Spirit. The bible says:

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: 'I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people. Therefore 'Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you."

This is having a bad association, as Matthew Henry put it,
"No one can know the things of God, but his Holy Spirit, who is one with the Father and the Son, and who makes known Divine mysteries to his church. This is most clear testimony, both to the real Godhead and the distinct person of the Holy Spirit. The apostles were not guided by worldly principles. They had the revelation of these things from the Spirit of God, and the saving impression of them from the same Spirit. These things they declared in plain, simple language, taught by the Holy Spirit, totally different from the affected oratory or enticing words of man's wisdom. The natural man, the wise man of the world, receives not the things of the Spirit of God. "

How can we recieve the world for the sake of Christ when the Bible said, James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

The fact that churches, and people who run and support "hope 08,"are, by association, de facto enemies of the cross. We cannot be in co-operation with the world and other religions that are in it we must be separate.

"Hope 08" being friends of the world, and in partnership and association with unbelievers, have lost the spiritual effectiveness that the churches once had. The wise and godly counsel of the Body of Christ is ignored in order, as they see it, "to make Christ acceptable to the world by doing away with our prejudices so that we may be effective for Christ."

People who wish to remain faithfull to Christ, are often told to accept the changes or there is no place for them in their fellowships. They disregard 1 Tim 3:16 because they do not want to appear to be offensive in any way.

When it comes to the purity of Truth, men cannot handle it, they in turn reject truth in order to please men, yet the definative truth is offensive to people.

Let's look at who Prince Charles is and it will be apparent after reading this that Charles is an Enemy of the Cross. The fact that "Hope 08" is willing to share the platform, co-oporate and accept Prince Charles amonst "Hope 08" does not leave it in good stead with God.

2 John 1:9 - 12 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

The Bible is crystal clear on the issue. These men do not have God, because they have not done what God has required and ignored sound doctrine for the things of the world.

[2] Prince Charles has done more than any other member of the Royal Family in history to understand Islam. He said in 1994 that when he became Supreme Governor of the Church of England, he would rather be "defender of faiths" than "defender of the faith".

He said he would rather be "defender of faiths" than "defender of the faith." This makes Prince Charles clearly an enemy of the Cross. Jesus said that there is only one way a man can enter into heaven. Prince Charles, by his own admission, has rejected the sovereinty of Christ. Islam teaches that "God has no son" and that Christians are perverse because Christians accept Jesus as deity. Read Sura Qur’an 9:30 basically It's perverse of Jews and Christians to say God has a son Like the infidels of old. God confound them!.

[3] "Prince Saving the World" Statue of Prince Charles Revealed 3/6/2002

Accepting the scale model of Mr Bentes' work the Prince said he was "amazed" and "deeply touched".

Explaining its significance, Tacantin's state governor Jose Wilson Sequeira Campos said: "It is Prince Charles saving the world".

This is Clear Blasphemy against Christ, there is only one saviour reconcuiling Man and God that is Christ Jesus.

On Islam and Charles Relationship to Islam.

Prince Charles (back C) and Camilla sit patiently during a Quranic lesson
(with chief Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi (L), at the Al Azhar Mosque, On tour of Egypt, this week. -AFP

[4] Is Prince Charles a Convert to Islam ?

November 9, 2003

In a 1997 Middle East Quarterly article titled "Prince Charles of Arabia," Ronni L. Gordon and David M. Stillman looked at evidence that Britain's Prince Charles might be a secret convert to Islam. They shifted through his public statements (defending Islamic law, praising the status of Muslim women, seeing in Islam a solution for Britain's ailments) and actions (setting up a panel of twelve "wise men" to advise him on Islamic religion and culture), then concluded that, "should Charles persist in his admiration of Islam and defamation of his own culture," his accession to the throne will indeed usher in a "different kind of monarchy."

All this comes to mind on reading an article titled "Charles Breaks Fast with the Faithful in Muscat" in today's Dubai-based Gulf News, which reports on some of Charles' activities during his current five-day visit to Oman:

He toured the Sultan Qaboos Grand Mosquest for almost two hours and "took keen interest in studying various sections at the mosque, including the main prayer hall." As his spokesman put it, "The Prince was particularly keen to come to the mosque today to see the fantastic building and remarkable architecture which Prince was fascinated with. The Prince has a great love for Islamic architecture and I can't think of finer example than this mosque."

He "spent a considerable time at an exhibition of Islamic calligraphy and held meetings with Sheikha Aisha Al Siaby, Head of Public Authority for Craft Industries and Taha Al Kisri, the Head of Omani Society for Fine Arts to discuss various aspects of Islamic art."

He "broke fast with a large congregation of people from different nationalities as he sat with folded legs on the floor in the open. He ate date and drank juice at the call of Iftar."

None of this, of course, is evidence that the Heir to the British Throne has changed religions, but his actions most certainly would be consistent with such a move, and especially the implication that he had kept the Ramadan fast. (November 9, 2003)

Charles with worry beads, Camilla with shawl.

Dec. 18, 2004 update: Prince Charles put himself in the middle of an Islamic theological issue that again could suggest his conversion to Islam – for if that is not the case, then on what basis does he opine on the Islamic law requiring that apostates from Islam be executed?

[5] Jonathan Petre of London's Daily Telegraph reports on a private summit of Christian and Muslim leaders at Clarence House on this topic sponsored earlier in December by the prince. Apparently, however, he did not get the results he hoped for, with one Christian participant indicating that Charles was "very, very unhappy" about its outcome. That may have been because the Muslims at the meeting resented his public involvement in this topic.

[6] July 14, 2005 update: And what does the good prince have to say about the murder by Islamists of 55 in London a week ago? He put fingers to keyboard and produced "True Muslims Must Root Out The Extremists" for the Mirror:

some deeply evil influence has been brought to bear on these impressionable young minds. … Some may think this cause is Islam. It is anything but. It is a perversion of traditional Islam. As I understand it, Islam preaches humanity, tolerance and a sense of community. … these acts have nothing to do with any true faith. … it is vital that everyone resists the temptation to condemn the Muslim community for the actions of such a tiny and evil minority. If we succumb to that temptation, the bombers will have achieved their aim. Likewise, in my view, it is the duty of every true Muslim to condemn these atrocities and root out those among them who preach and practise such hatred and bitterness.

Comment: This sounds to me like the same apologetics churned out by [7] the Muslim Council of Britain and other Islamist bodies.

Aug. 2, 2005 update: At the funeral of King Fahd in Riyadh, the Associated Press reports, "Non-Muslims were not allowed at the ceremonies." So far as I can tell, Charles did not attend the ceremonies. (There surely would have been a press uproar if he had.) We can conclude that whatever his inner faith, he is not presenting himself as a Muslim in public.

But [8] CNN reports RIYADH, Saudi Arabia -- Muslim leaders and Saudi princes have bid a final farewell to King Fahd before his body was buried in an unmarked grave in a desert cemetery in keeping with Saudi Arabia's austere Islamic tradition.

"The mourners stood, raising their arms and chanting "Allahu akbar," or "God is great" during a two-minute prayer.

Security was tight in the capital for the ceremonies, with large crowds of ordinary Saudis participating alongside monarchs, presidents and other dignitaries from the Arab world and other Islamic nations.

Western leaders and dignitaries, (including Britain's Prince Charles), French President Jacques Chirac and Australia's governor general were also offering condolences.

Sep. 4, 2005 update: Prince Charles revealed in a letter leaked to the Daily Telegraph that he had strained relations with
[9] George Carey, then archbishop of Canterbury, over his attitude toward Islam. Particularly contentious was his expressed intent, on becoming king and supreme governor of the Church of England, to ditch the centuries' old defender of the faith title and replace it with defender of faith and defender of the Divine. The letter reveals the archbishop's reaction.

"I wish you'd been there for the archbishop! Didn't really appreciate what I was getting at by talking about "the Divine" and felt that I had said far more about Islam than I did about Christianity - and was therefore worried about my development as a Christian."

According to royal aides, Charles did not much respect Lord Carey's views and the feelings were reciprocated.

Oct. 29, 2005 update: [10] "Prince Charles to plead Islam's cause to Bush" reads the Sunday Telegraph headline. The text by Andrew Alderson tells how the prince of Wales

Will try to persuade George W Bush and Americans of the merits of Islam this week because he thinks the United States has been too intolerant of the religion since September 11. The Prince, who leaves on Tuesday for an eight-day tour of the US, has voiced private concerns over America's "confrontational" approach to Muslim countries and its failure to appreciate Islam's strengths.

Apparently, he "wants Americans - including Mr Bush - to share his fondness for Islam."

Nov. 2, 2005 update: That Daily Telegraph cited in the previous update made the rounds, perhaps even to the White House. In any case, George W. Bush had a little zinger ready for the good prince in his welcome for [11] him and Camilla at the state dinner:

In the first part of the 20th century, our nations stood together to ensure that fascism did not prevail in Europe. In the second half of the 20th century, we worked tirelessly to defeat the totalitarian ideology of communism. And today we're fighting side by side against an ideology of hatred and intolerance to ensure that the 21st century will be one of liberty and "hope".

Charles did not reply to this comment, limiting his response to projects for the underprivileged and fond memories of Winston Churchill.

Nov. 3, 2005 update: [12] Ali Sina proposes a reason for Charles' attraction to Islam, suggesting that he may be tired of democracy: "Does he secretly envy the Islamic system of government where the rulers have absolute power and can even impose morality on their subjects?"

Nov. 13, 2005 update: Charles' efforts to promote Islam does his mother no good in Al-Qaeda's eyes. In a just-reviewed videotape, the organization's number two, [13] Ayman al- Zawahiri, calls Queen Elizabeth II "one of the severest enemies of Islam" and blames her for what he calls Britain's "crusader laws." In addition, he criticizes British Muslims who "work for the pleasure of Elizabeth, the head of the Church of England" and ridicules them for saying (his words, not theirs): "We are British citizens, subject to Britain's crusader laws, and we are proud of our submission . . . to Elizabeth, head of the Church of England."

Jan. 19, 2006 update: As patron of the [14] Festival of Muslim Cultures, which its [15] website describes as a national celebration of "the rich cultural and artistic expressions of the Muslim peoples," Charles will be visiting Sheffield soon. He will tour an exhibition there, "Palace and Mosque: Islamic Treasures of the Middle East," that launches the festival. The prince is said to be keen to see the exhibition. He will also meet school and community groups and watch a performance by a group of Muslim women and girls.

Mar. 21, 2006 update: Charles weighed in on the Muhammad cartoon controversy, telling an audience of more than 800 Islamic scholars at Cairo's Al-Azhar University in what the
[16] Times (London) called a "serious, impassioned 30-minute speech" that "The recent ghastly strife and anger over the Danish cartoons shows the danger that comes of our failure to listen and to respect what is precious and sacred to others. In my view, the true mark of a civilised society is the respect it pays to minorities and to strangers."

Mar. 25, 2006 update: As the first Westerner ever to address the Al Imam Mohammad Bin Saud Islamic University in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Charles (as was the case in December 2004 – see the update above) chose to give Muslims some advice about
[17] modernizing their religion. Note the "we" in the following quote: "I think we need to recover the depth, the subtlety, the generosity of imagination, the respect for wisdom that so marked Islam in its great ages." He also said [18] Jews and Christians should learn from Islamic teachings:

What is so distinctive of the great ages of faith surely was that they understood, as well as sacred texts ... the meaning of God's word for all time and its meaning for this time. … it was Islam's greatness to understand this in its full depth and challenge. This is what you ... can give not only to Islam but by example to all the other children of Abraham.

Prince Charles meets the children at the Islamia Primary School, London.

Speaking of Islamic education, here is a remedial news item: back in March 2000, Prince Charles visited the [19] Islamia Primary School in North-West London. This, Britain's first state-funded Muslim school, was founded and is headed by Yusuf Islam (a.k.a. Cat Stevens), an Islamist who threatened Salman Rushdie's life during the Satanic Verses controversy and has since been banned from entering the United States. The Prince told the children: "You are ambassadors for a sometimes much misunderstood faith. "I believe that Islam has much to teach increasingly secular societies like ours in Britain."

Oct. 31, 2006 update: There's been a strong reaction to a Kuwait News Agency report that "Prince Charles Tuesday said that the world problems could be resolve by following Islamic teachings, as Islam is a religion of peace and brotherhood." But a look at the speech in question, to the Fatima Jinnah Women University in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, finds no such statement. All Charles did was to quote the Koran in a favorable way in the context of a new-agey-style discussion of the Planet Earth:

"This planet's survival will depend on you understanding that you can achieve unity through diversity; that you can in fact build on living, timeless traditions that are a part of your unique culture and still be "modern". It will also depend on you realizing that the planetary crisis we face is so profound in its rapidly developing consequences that we simply cannot afford to go on squabbling amongst ourselves while we destroy the world around us at a truly terrifying rate. As it says in the Qu'ran – "Only they pay attention who have hearts; only they believe (or see signs) who have hearts." Have you seen the signs? Will you trust in what your hearts are telling you?"

Nov. 6, 2006 update: Umree Khan reports in the Guardian,
[20] "Why Muslims love the royals," on the Muslim response to Charles and his family:

In the wake of Prince Charles's visit to Pakistan, now is an apt time to reflect on the strange hold that royals, and he in particular, have over Muslims.

It may sound paradoxical, but it's not surprising that when Labour ministers queue up to tell modest women to take their veils off, there is a special affection for a prince whose public utterances on the subject have been marked by a sort of bumbling Islamophilia.

Charles and Camilla's visit to Pakistan was a really important trip for my mum. She is obsessed with the royal family. Lots of mums are but, really, you have no idea how big the royals are with Bangladeshi women. My friend Koruna will tell me, "You think your mum is obsessed, but I bet she doesn't have a showcase filled with royal-family china like my aunts." Of course she does - we had entire commemorative sets of Diana and Charles plates, eggcups, the works, in our living room. "Yeah," Koruna replies, "but a whole showcase in a mud-shack village in Bangladesh?"

Thousands of households in the subcontinent give pride of place to royal kitsch, and that is as much the case in the volatile Islamic states of Pakistan and Bangladesh as it is in India. A survey of my Asian mates confirms this grim predicament - the royal cult, and in particular the icon that is Diana, is being propped up by Muslim women all over the world.

May 26, 2007 update: The BBC has announced a forthcoming world premier performance. Sir John Tavener's major new work, [21] The Beautiful Names will be introduced on June 19 at 7:30 p.m. in Westminster Cathedral. The BBC Symphony Orchestra under Jirí Belohlávek will join forces with the BBC Symphony Chorus and Westminster Cathedral Choir.

The Beautiful Names sets the 99 names for Allah as culled from the Qu'ran, sung in Arabic. "Inspiration for the piece came to me as a vision," says Tavener, "and the music just came to me immediately I saw the Arabic word." He has worked closely with the Arabist Michael Macdonald to ensure correct pronunciation and stress – "the sound actually does help create the music." The 70-minute work is divided into eleven groups of nine "tonal zones" and the start of each new section is prefaced by a magisterial calling out of Allah. Making his strongest reference yet to Islam, Tavener also calls upon Sufism, Hinduism and Buddhism in his choice of structure, instrumentation and tonality.

Program notes by Tavener spell this vision out in greater detail. Tickets are on sale for £24, £20, £16, £12, £8. Oh, and the work was commissioned by HRH The Prince Of Wales.

July 11, 2007 update: From a speech at the opening of the
[22] Aga Khan Trust for Culture's "Spirit & Life" Exhibition at the Ismaili Centre in London:

So much attention is paid to the outward differences between Faiths. Almost reflexively, this becomes translated into seemingly impenetrable divisions between people; people who – if they did but know it – are in fact linked by much and separated by rather little. How refreshing it is, then, to be reminded by this marvellous exhibition of the spirituality from which our Faiths draw their real strength, and of the heritage and traditions which we share,

"Their Royal Highnesses watch a display of whirling dervishes in Konya, Turkey," according to Prince Charles' website..

Nov. 27, 2007 update: Two points of note in a Times (London) article by Alan Hamilton, [23] "Whirling dervishes' star turn caps Prince's homage to Islamic mystic."

1. Writing from Konya, Turkey, about Prince Charles' visit there to the shrine of Mevlana Jalal ad-Din Rumi during the 800th year of Rumi's birth, Hamilton mentions as an aside that "The Prince disclosed yesterday that he had paid a private visit in 1992 to the shrine."

2. After watching ten whirling dervishes perform at a cultural center, Charles stated in a speech: "Whatever it is, it seems to me that Western life has become deconstructed and partial." The East, on the other hand, he went on, had given us "parables of the soul."

Dec. 16, 2007 update: Princess Diana was also close to conversion to Islam. Of course, there was Dodi Fayad, about whom great debate exists. But before him, she was involved for two years with Dr. Hasnat Khan, in what appears to have been a more substantial and serious relationship. Here is how Ronni L. Gordon and David M. Stillman characterized it in 1997 in "Prince Charles of Arabia":

Under the Yoke of Rome and friends with the enemies of the Cross ?

The Pope met with Prince Charles and the Archbishop of Canterbury.

After making his way through the cheering crowds who gathered to see him, the Pope met Dr Runcie and Prince Charles at Canterbury Cathedral, with the three men posing for photographs on a sofa in the Deanery.

[24] Royal wedding moved to Saturday

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Prince Charles' wedding to Camilla Parker Bowles has been moved to Saturday to allow Charles to attend Pope John Paul II's funeral at the Vatican on Friday, his office said.

Charles and Camilla attend a memorial service for the pope, along with Tony and Cherie Blair.

"As a mark of respect His Royal Highness and Mrs. Parker Bowles have decided to postpone their wedding until Saturday," a spokesman for Charles said.

[25] Papal funeral forces Prince of Wales to delay wedding

The Prince of Wales bowed to the inevitable today and agreed to postpone by a day his long-awaited wedding to Camilla Parker Bowles so that he – and the Prime Minister and Archbishop of Canterbury – can attend Friday’s funeral of Pope John Paul II.

The decision will ensure that the three pillars of established power in Britain – Church, Crown and Parliament – will all be properly represented when up to four million mourners gather to mark the Pope's passing. Other world leaders to due attend the ceremony include President Bush, President Chirac and Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary-General.

The Prince’s decision to delay his big day also came as a relief in Downing Street, where Mr Blair, an Anglican with known Catholic leanings, faced a dilemma. A spokesman said: "The Prime Minister is now very glad he is able to go to both events."

Prince Charles and his bride-to-be were among hundreds of VIP guests and Catholics to attend a service of prayer for the Pope in London today.

[26] Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, leader of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales, [27] (currently on "Hope 08" Board of Reference), paid tribute to the late pontiff as "one of history’s greatest Christians.

Refs:

[1] http://www.hope08.com/Publisher/Article.aspx?id=102141

[2] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news
/2005/10/30/nchas30.xml

[3] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1857482.stm

[4] http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/119

[5] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/18/nprince
18.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/12/18/ixportaltop.html

[6] http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15732670&method=fu
ll&siteid=94762&headline=prince-charles--true-muslims-must-root-o
ut-the-extremists-name_page.html